Friday, April 10, 2020 1:23:18 AM

SM file support discussion

2 years ago
#30 Quote
https://www.strawpoll.me/15455182

I asked and StepMania files are and will not be supported in RH. This thread is intended for discussion of this.

My friend is planning to buy impulse pads and yet he has no plans of picking up RH because it doesn't support the vast library of existing SM files.

I think RH is cool, but I also like to have a massive selection of songs, which RH probably won't have for quite a while. I'll probably sub two or three times a year just to see the new charts every now and then. I won't be playing it as my primary game because all my favorite songs and huge song selection are in StepMania.

Not only do those 2 things lower profits, but they also heavily reduce exposure. For example, I was planning on streaming the game a lot to support it, but I can't do that as often if I rarely play it.

Are there any legal issues with supporting this? I'd guess not so long as its just a file format being supported, and that none of the songs go on the server for download or score tracking.

I'm curious how many people are in the same boat as my friend and what other thoughts you guys have.
-2
2 years ago
#31 Quote
At some point after the Beta has ended, we will likely allow users to import their own music into RH  to play locally.

At that time, we will also make the details of our content file formats publicly so that anyone who wishes can write tools involving them.

It is highly unlikely that Rhythm Horizon will ever support content files from other games.
4
2 years ago
#32 Quote
Why wait so long? Honestly, that sounds like a dumb move.

In these days where 1.0 releases are the exception, not the norm, it doesn't matter that you call this a beta. For most people, RH was released this week-end. The fact you force us to pay for the beta of a product that supposedly will have a free version when it is released does not help thinking otherwise.

Don't wait until the novelty wears off. Don't wait until the Impulse pads are out and people are back to SM to use them. Don't think many people are 9-panel enthusiasts. The truth is that you may have a few dozens people eager to play 9-panel in your discord but the vast majority of SM/DDR/ITG/PIU players will keep playing 4/5 panels. Most of the people who will buy an Impulse will use SM as their client.

RH is a fantastic client. The detailed statistics are awesome. The interface is clean. Many people would trade SM for RH right now if they could.

But this will not happen if you keep your file format(s) hidden from us. Don't wait "at some point after the beta has ended" (which means "at some point after release"). RH has started this week-end and it is now that you need support from your community.

There's not a lot that you need to do. Just make the file formats public and allow us to import songs. That's all you need to do. Don't worry, somebody else will take care of writing that sm2rhc.exe for you.

Also, you do know that if you don't, somebody will make a RH theme for Stepmania (which btw is starting to support 720p too) and there's also a good chance your file format gets cracked as well. I'm not even sure why you want to keep this hidden if your plans are to actually make it public at some point.

TL;DR - RH will have a (much brighter) future if you open the file formats and let your users import songs locally. The sooner the better. More exposure. More $ubs.
0
2 years ago
#36 Quote
keepActivated wrote:
Why wait so long?

TL;DR - RH will have a (much brighter) future if you open the file formats and let your users import songs locally. The sooner the better. More exposure. More $ubs.


I'm not going to disagree with the majority of what you said, but just saying, you wouldn't want to release an unfinished iteration and have people be disappointed by radical changes that they'd make before a finalized product is settled on. Don't sweat it too much for a beta dude, be more angry that you have to pay to use the step editor for local-only content lol.
-2
2 years ago
#40 Quote
sigatrev wrote:
At some point after the Beta has ended, we will likely allow users to import their own music into RH  to play locally.

It is highly unlikely that Rhythm Horizon will ever support content files from other games.


i want to play 9 panel mungyodance 1, 2 and 3 pls
0
https://www.twitch.tv/p00pbutt420
2 years ago
#45 Quote
Horsey wrote:
Why wait so long?

TL;DR - RH will have a (much brighter) future if you open the file formats and let your users import songs locally. The sooner the better. More exposure. More $ubs.

I'm not going to disagree with the majority of what you said, but just saying, you wouldn't want to release an unfinished iteration and have people be disappointed by radical changes that they'd make before a finalized product is settled on. Don't sweat it too much for a beta dude, be more angry that you have to pay to use the step editor for local-only content lol.


I'im not angry, sorry if it sounded like I am. Or maybe I am a little because I really, really fear RH will not succeed because of such poor decisions, and I do want RH to succeed.

EDIT: it's clear that they don't really know what they're doing from a technical (SSL cert on website was not good until d-day, emails going to spam, executable not signed...) and business perspective (very lacking communication, wrong market targetting, paid-only beta for a beta period way too long...), and it's fine and understandable if it's their first commercial product, but I really hope they won't kill their product by trying to be too proprietary because this will not get them very far.
-1
2 years ago
#51 Quote
Keep in mind that Rhythm Horizon is NOT the next iteration of StepMania, or some other dance game. It is designed to TRANSCEND other dance games (including StepMania). You can always use StepMania to play SM files. Rhythm Horizon is taking everything to the next level. There's already a TON of official, fully licensed and legal 9-panel content. Also this is an official paid title with full online score tracking and community features. StepMania is freeware.

If you were to think about what has happened in the past, and the type of content that is frequently shared in .SM format, it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that it is IMPERATIVE that Rhythm Horizon provide NO official support for content that is not fully licensed and carefully controlled within their system. The fact that they will eventually be allowing custom content of any kind even locally is actually pretty amazing, given the circumstances.

IMO, if you really want RH to succeed, it's even MORE important to stop associating it so strongly with open-source software built upon AT BEST questionable media. I'm not going to spell it out here, but seriously, take some time to think about the risks. Of course, these are all my own personal opinions and observations, and I am in no way affiliated with the company. But I also trust in the decisions made by the company owners and the counsel they have no doubt received.

What they are doing has never been done before, and it will no doubt be an uphill journey. I know it's difficult to leave behind the great treasures that have led us to this point, but with patience and perseverance, I know they'll be able to make a triumphant return when the time is right. Patience is something that the dance game community should be very well acquainted with by now. And with the public beta opening, there is plenty to do in the meantime. As long as we are able to keep doing what we are doing, I know things will work out in the end. Let's celebrate the victories we have and move forward together, one step at a time.
1
2 years ago
#53 Quote
It makes no sense to me that they will open the file format later if they keep it closed right now. I really don't see what they get by doing so. I'm more inclined to think that it will never be made public. Otherwise do it now, why wait?

To transcend the genre you first need to bring people in. This will be done by opening the file format. Then once people are there if their own content and 9k gameplay is good enough, people will adopt it. They will transcend nothing if they limit themselves to their 500 or 1000 "fans" (and tbh I think I'm being generous) compared to the thousands of SM players out there.

I also don't see what could be wrong with them letting us do and use anything *locally*. I never implied that any unlicensed content should ever reach their servers in any way.

As for the ton of licensed music - you'd better like electro/dumbstep/chiptune because that's pretty much all it is. Some songs are really good but it's far from being varied. But that would be another debate.

Unfortunately they will never share the numbers but I would be curious to know how much subs they will lose month after month. I know personally I'm not re-subscribing until I can have my own local content. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Personally, I think that, despite what they're saying, they will never allow us to have our own files locally. I hope I'm wrong. But I do believe that they would have allowed right from the start if it was in their plans. I personally think they just don't want to admit it by fear of losing us. I think they're waiting that we're involved enough with their content before telling us that we're not getting custom content.

https://youtu.be/C1Maf4WtFnE?t=24m32s --> then let us?
Note: see how they also disable comments even on those videos... they are not only bad at communicating but also it's clear that they don't take suggestions.

I'll give RH another try in a dozen months I guess! Meanwhile I hope it succeeds.
0
2 years ago
#58 Quote
keepActivated wrote:
Try listening to the part right after that. It's extremely important that they tread carefully here. If you are not familiar with the history of other alternative dance games, I would suggest reading about it. They are never going to give explicit answers about these quandaries. It's not because they don't want to. It's because they CAN'T. It doesn't matter whether you understand or not. But the more attention people bring to these topics, the more difficult it could potentially become for them to allow custom content on that level. Because the more they have to talk about it, the more risky it becomes for them to potentially be associated with it. So please, if you want to see a full open system in the future, your best bet is to stop making such a big deal about it, and be patient like everyone else. If you still don't understand, fine. But you're not going to get a detailed answer either way. And if you can't trust the creators that have poured their hearts and souls into not only this project, but to many others that have grown the community in countless ways over more than a decade, I don't have anything else to say.
1
2 years ago
#59 Quote
And if push comes to shove, you can always try it out for one month for only $5. It does not automatically renew or anything. See for yourself the sheer amount of content and features that are already present within the game. And it's only the beginning. If you don't like it, there's zero commitment. They are doing everything they can to make this as approachable as possible.
0